Comments on: Let’s Hate http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/ An Iranian looking at Iran as a foreigner... Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:39:47 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: kamangir http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8253 kamangir Wed, 20 Sep 2006 18:48:30 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8253 Amy, This is great! One less reason to hate. Thanks for the update. :) Amy,
This is great! One less reason to hate. Thanks for the update. :)

]]> By: Amy http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8252 Amy Wed, 20 Sep 2006 17:49:24 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8252 Hi Archer, OK, here's what I found. Every person I spoke to sounded surprised that it was even a question. The typical response was something like this. "Jesus died voluntarily, and he came to die, so it doesn't matter who drove the nails. Since Christians benefit, and we say that Jesus died for us, we can also say that Jesus died BECAUSE of us." Blaming Jews for Christ's death, at least among my Christian tradition is really frowned upon. See, most Evangelicals hold Jews in high esteem and consider them God's people, and believe that Christians have been "grafted into" the tree. It's an analogy that the Apostle Paul used, that Jews are God's people, and are like a tree, but that Gentiles (non-Jews) can be grafted onto the tree by believing in Jesus. Now, this is from the POV of an American Evangelical, so I'm sure ideas can differ in other countries and, certainly have differed through time, but this is a decent cross section from my Christian framework. Best to you ! Amy Hi Archer,
OK, here’s what I found. Every person I spoke to sounded surprised that it was even a question. The typical response was something like this. “Jesus died voluntarily, and he came to die, so it doesn’t matter who drove the nails. Since Christians benefit, and we say that Jesus died for us, we can also say that Jesus died BECAUSE of us.” Blaming Jews for Christ’s death, at least among my Christian tradition is really frowned upon. See, most Evangelicals hold Jews in high esteem and consider them God’s people, and believe that Christians have been “grafted into” the tree. It’s an analogy that the Apostle Paul used, that Jews are God’s people, and are like a tree, but that Gentiles (non-Jews) can be grafted onto the tree by believing in Jesus.

Now, this is from the POV of an American Evangelical, so I’m sure ideas can differ in other countries and, certainly have differed through time, but this is a decent cross section from my Christian framework.

Best to you !
Amy

]]> By: kamangir http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8256 kamangir Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:57:37 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8256 That is so nice of you! And I mean it. I really like to hear your answer to this question: "does an average Christian hold Jewish people accountable for killing Jesus"? That is so nice of you! And I mean it. I really like to hear your answer to this question: “does an average Christian hold Jewish people accountable for killing Jesus”?

]]> By: Amy http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8257 Amy Wed, 20 Sep 2006 12:35:46 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8257 I'm a "pure" Christian :) Maybe I'll ask this question at my Bible study today and give you and give you an update. Amy I’m a “pure” Christian :) Maybe I’ll ask this question at my Bible study today and give you and give you an update.
Amy

]]> By: kamangir http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8259 kamangir Tue, 19 Sep 2006 17:35:58 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8259 This works for me. Still, I am not quite sure pure Christians like your argument. :) This works for me. Still, I am not quite sure pure Christians like your argument. :)

]]> By: Amy http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8258 Amy Tue, 19 Sep 2006 12:18:45 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8258 Hi Archer, I think we do agree. No one should point fingers at who killed Jesus, because Christians believe he came for the sole purpose of dying. I happen to believe that blaming Jews, or anyone else for killing Jesus, is contrary to the purpose of Jesus's death. No one should be pointing fingers, except, if they're Christians, at themselves. Amy Hi Archer,
I think we do agree. No one should point fingers at who killed Jesus, because Christians believe he came for the sole purpose of dying. I happen to believe that blaming Jews, or anyone else for killing Jesus, is contrary to the purpose of Jesus’s death. No one should be pointing fingers, except, if they’re Christians, at themselves.
Amy

]]> By: Frieda http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8255 Frieda Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:45:57 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8255 You better read this : http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/09/apologize_for_what.html HE DID NOT PREACH HATE..get your fact straight You better read this : http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2006/09/apologize_for_what.html

HE DID NOT PREACH HATE..get your fact straight

]]> By: kamangir http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8254 kamangir Mon, 18 Sep 2006 23:12:29 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8254 Amy, My question is this, even if Jews killed Christ for sure is it really important? He was killed for a very important reason, at least his followers claim so. Yet, it seems that many forget the main cause and follow a narrow pathway which is probably more interesting because lets you yell at others. The same is true for Muslims and probably Jews. Any way, it seems we think a bit similarly. Amy,
My question is this, even if Jews killed Christ for sure is it really important? He was killed for a very important reason, at least his followers claim so. Yet, it seems that many forget the main cause and follow a narrow pathway which is probably more interesting because lets you yell at others. The same is true for Muslims and probably Jews.

Any way, it seems we think a bit similarly.

]]> By: Amy http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8251 Amy Mon, 18 Sep 2006 22:36:46 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8251 Hi Archer, Ah, thanks for the clarification. I missed the updates while you were gone. BTW, while much of Christian history has demonized the Jews, claiming they were "Christ killers" the reality remains that crucifixion was a Roman execution style, not something that Jews did, or even had a right to do under the Roman occupation. If I ever heard a Christian claim that the Jews killed Christ, I'd say, "You're a Christian? You believe that Christ died for your sins? Then you killed Christ." I think this is the basis of Christianity. Thanks again for your response. Amy Hi Archer,
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I missed the updates while you were gone. BTW, while much of Christian history has demonized the Jews, claiming they were “Christ killers” the reality remains that crucifixion was a Roman execution style, not something that Jews did, or even had a right to do under the Roman occupation. If I ever heard a Christian claim that the Jews killed Christ, I’d say, “You’re a Christian? You believe that Christ died for your sins? Then you killed Christ.” I think this is the basis of Christianity. Thanks again for your response.
Amy

]]> By: kamangir http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8250 kamangir Mon, 18 Sep 2006 21:51:19 +0000 http://kamangir.net/2006/09/18/lets-hate/#comment-8250 Amy, Thanks for the background. It was very interesting. I look at this as an outsider. I am neither Cristian, nor Jew or Muslim. All these doctrines are respected institutions established for good. Though, for some reason, they have also been the source for hatred and war. Take this; a real Shia learns that Sunni figures violently possessed leadership and opposed Imam Ali. Remembering this, people will only have one more reason to hate each other. While the cross and crucification are respected by some people, and I have definitely no problem with them, I do not think Pope should remind the world of the almost forgotten controversy around them. It seems that Jewish people were indeed the ones who killed Christ. Similarly, Muslims and Christians killed each other for quite a long period. I think if we, or some people, like to preserve these religions they should start to "forget" the past. This seems to have happened pretty well in Christianity, and also probably in Judaism to some extent. It seems that Muslims are becoming mature, too. Maybe Pope is a bit behind the general public. Any way, my title may seem a bit sarcastic. I apologize if it is insulting. What I meant was to show my surprise that a source of blessing reminds the world of old wounds. Amy,
Thanks for the background. It was very interesting.
I look at this as an outsider. I am neither Cristian, nor Jew or Muslim. All these doctrines are respected institutions established for good. Though, for some reason, they have also been the source for hatred and war. Take this; a real Shia learns that Sunni figures violently possessed leadership and opposed Imam Ali. Remembering this, people will only have one more reason to hate each other. While the cross and crucification are respected by some people, and I have definitely no problem with them, I do not think Pope should remind the world of the almost forgotten controversy around them.
It seems that Jewish people were indeed the ones who killed Christ. Similarly, Muslims and Christians killed each other for quite a long period. I think if we, or some people, like to preserve these religions they should start to “forget” the past. This seems to have happened pretty well in Christianity, and also probably in Judaism to some extent. It seems that Muslims are becoming mature, too. Maybe Pope is a bit behind the general public.
Any way, my title may seem a bit sarcastic. I apologize if it is insulting. What I meant was to show my surprise that a source of blessing reminds the world of old wounds.

]]>