Kamangir (Archer)

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Update: Petition to Condemn UCPD

Kamangir | November 17, 2006 | Category Iran

Please sign the petition (see).

We condemn the recent excessive and unnecessary force used in the case of the Iranian American student abused at the UCLA Powell Library. This is a case of police brutality and warrants immediate action taken against the police involved. Please support this cause by signing the petition to further investigations in this matter.

Reader's Comments

ella | November 18th, 2006 at 4:13 am
Archer

I heard that the situation was like that:
This student was asked by the library to show his ID card, as it was after 11:00 pm. He refused to show his student card shouting that they want his card because he is from the ME> The librarians called police. Police came and the student refused again to show his ID. Police asked him politely but he started to throwing a scene. Then the police wanted him to go with them, he again refused. Police used taser. Somebody got the image of that student on video and put it on UTube.

I do not know if that version is correct, but if so, police were in their rights to use taser and the student is at fault. Taser is painful but if above version is true the student abused his rights and there should be no petition as he is in the wrong.
ella | November 18th, 2006 at 4:41 am
ups, sorry, archer. that student was shouting that because he is from Iran they discriminate against him and want him to show his ID.
I don’t think it was a case of police brutality, if he was throwing a scene then police would probably have two way to deal with that guy.
1) they would have to drag him to the station, he would have fought them and they would have been accused of excessive brutality
2) use a taser………same result.
don’t forget that UCLA has a reputation as very anti-police, anti-establishment university so often things are not as they seem.
ella | November 18th, 2006 at 11:14 pm
Archer
And I have couple of questions to you.

1) Why the student did not show his ID card. If he had the ID he should have shown it, if he had not what was he doing in the lab? If he forgot the ID why he did not left the lab peacefully or said he forgot ID and tried to explain this problem. It seems that he assumed from the start that he was treated differently because he is from the ME.
2) You assume that because he is from Iran and Ali (who commented before and whose comments I have just read) assume that because he was a muslim he must have been treated differently from anybody else. Why?
3) What in your view should have police done when he refused to show his ID card. Should they left him alone and allow him to stay in the lab w/o ID card. What would you do in their place?

I think that shouting at police do not seem like a good idea in any circumstances. The police assume that the person might be violent and act accordingly.
The same treatment would have been, in my view, accorded to any student shouting at police regardless if his/her race.
Matthew | November 19th, 2006 at 1:57 am
Ella, from what I know of the incident, I agree with your postings. YouTube makes it easy to see a visceral scene without demanding that you know what happened before or after the ’show.’
Ali | November 19th, 2006 at 2:29 am
Ella:
Re:#2, does any body else get shocked twice with taser guns in your own college library for not having your student id on you? answer: no
does a muslim? answer: yes
gee, it looks like he WAS treated differently than everybody else *roll eyes*
Farah Assadi | November 19th, 2006 at 11:00 am
I condemn this act not just due to the racial discrimination which is now happening more frequently by police!! (A recent video was just posted in yourtube showed how couple of polices beating a black guy so violently), but I also condemn this act since it is against treating a human being and abusing his/her right in a public place. There should be restrict rules for polices not taking advantage of their powers when it comes to behave toward public. Imagine a society where violence rules and no freedom of act subsist, how can you declare democracy?!!!!
brando | November 19th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
does any body else get shocked twice with taser guns in your own college library for not having your student id on you?

Let’s agree to stop saying that. We all know that it was because he went all Sam Kinison.

He ~~innocently forgot his ID~~ intentionally spazed out like a maniac.
kamangir | November 19th, 2006 at 5:19 pm
Ella,
Even if your story is correct, which I doubt because no one in the scene seems to agree with you, why did they use the tazer so many times and why did they threaten others students?
ella | November 19th, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Kamangir

These are two questions.
1) Did the man have an ID. The answer is probably no, at least he refused to show his ID.
From what I know of Canadian universities if you are in the lab/library you usually have to go inside showing your ID. The only way to get to the lab is to get inside with your friend.
2) This man assumed that the library spot check target him, and him alone because of his race. As you can note (you yourself provided that version), the librarians called police because he refused to leave library when he was asked to. Furthermore, he had already friends there to back him up, the friends who probably helped him to go to the library/lab.
3) When police came he started to shout. He started to accuse them of following “Patriot Act”, that in itself show that he was ready for fight, had negative view of police and the establishement and that, because of his friends being with him, he thought that they would back him up in the fight which might follow his refusal. They did.
4) Police used taser once, they only threatened other students. Have you ever been in the group of students (or any group…..lets say socker fans) who are sure of their right, have negative views of police and are primed for fight?
5) What does it tell you. It tells you that
a/ students were spoiling for fight
b/ police have, as I wrote before only three solution
- leave the student alone, allow him to stay in the library and in consequence all students without ID will be free from now on to stay in the library. (ever heard of precedent? from now on all students can say, “hey, but such and such was allowed to stay in the library, why I can not do that, that’s (rasism/prejudice/taking out student freedoms…take your pick))
- start to fight with the student and his friends.
- use taser

I again ask you and Ali……..do you, when going to university and when you forget your ID refuse to go out of premises when asked to do that?
Do you shout at police when in the wrong?
Let’s take it further, do you when going shopping refuse to show your credit card when buying something?

As for the usage of taser. Yes, it is painfull, but the only question here is “are police allowed to use taser in such situations”.

Ali
does any body else get shocked twice with taser guns in your own college library for not having your student id on you? answer: no
But none of the students in my college refuse to show ID cards or refuse to get out of the premises when asked to do so, although they do sometimes try to get around some of the regulations, but who doesn’t?
ella | November 19th, 2006 at 6:46 pm
ps. I know only of one major incident in my college where couple of students fought with security , but then they were on drugs. I don’t think that applies to this one.
kamangir | November 19th, 2006 at 7:52 pm
Ella,
The bottom line is, he did not show his ID because he was an insane person. What does a “modern” policeman do to an insane person? I hope your answer does not include tasers.
I do not assume that he was treated like that solely because he was from Iran. The thing is, because of numerous events middle east is assumed to be a harbor for terrorists. I personally think Muslims are mostly responsible for that. Anyhow, he was maltreated because of others’ faults. I hate it when Ali connects this to Islam, because I am not sure if he has been thinking about Allah at the time he started swearing. For the record, if this ever happened to me, I am NOT a Muslim.
I do agree with you that “shouting at police do not seem like a good idea in any circumstances”. However, if after you shouted they started beating you I would say that is Islamic Republic and not the land of freedom. The thing is, many Americans claim that they live in a place very different an ideological hell.
kamangir | November 19th, 2006 at 7:53 pm
Matthew,
Yes, a video may be misleading. Still, let’s not forget what has happened.
kamangir | November 19th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
Ali,
Just for the record, as I have already mentioned in a response to Ella, if this ever happened to me, I am NOT a Muslim.
kamangir | November 19th, 2006 at 7:55 pm
Farah Assadi,
Good question.
kamangir | November 19th, 2006 at 8:00 pm
Ella,
1- I have been in Canada for over one year and the only occasion when I was asked to produce an ID was when I mistakenly did not turn the alarm off and it went off. A muscular policeman asked me for my ID and then wrote a few lines. Now, I remember that I was alone in the building and that he had plenty of dangerous-looking instruments hanging from his belt.
2-
3- He spoke about the Patriot Act after they started struggling with him.
4- A dozen of students is nothing like a bunch of soccer fans.

I will talk about this in a separate post.
Mideast Youth - Thinking ahead » I Hate So I Am | November 19th, 2006 at 8:45 pm
[...] As any other event, people have been struggling to “prove” they know who should be blamed for the event. I donâ€™t think it was a case of police brutality, … police would probably have two way to deal with that guy. 1) they would have to drag him to the station, he would have fought them and they would have been accused of excessive brutality 2) use a taserâ€¦â€¦â€¦same result. donâ€™t forget that UCLA has a reputation as very anti-police, anti-establishment university so often things are not as they seem. (see) YouTube makes it easy to see a visceral scene without demanding that you know what happened before or after the â€™show.â€™ (see). Are you people just plain stupid or just pretending to be stupid? He was at the bloody exit when the cop confronted him. (see). Why didnâ€™t he just leave when requested to? I think this was planned. So do others. CAIR jumped on it pretty quick. The â€œvictimâ€ is probably on their payroll. Iranian indeed. Taqiyya? (see). There is no point in changing their so-called training programmes and policy. These cops needs to be sentenced several years in prison for assault with intent to kill. (see). [...]
Ali | November 20th, 2006 at 12:36 am
Kamangir:
If you were in this students’ place, this would still be construed as an attack on Islam and Muslims. You are Iranian, you come from Iran, a country in the heart of the Muslim ummat (nation).

These attacks are about what you are perceived to be: a Middle Easterner, an Iranian, a Muslim. Whether or not you have read your four raka’at of ‘Isha prayer tonight is between you and Allah.
Matthew | November 20th, 2006 at 1:35 pm
Arash, What’s particularly dangerous about videos posted on YouTube is that they give the viewer the feeling that he/she really ‘know’ what happened in a case like this. What the video doesn’t show is everything leading up to the incident-the guy talking to the guards, trying to get inside, etc. We know what happened ON THE VIDEO but everything prior to that which led to the student’s tazing are ALSO PART OF WHAT HAPPENED. It’s easy to kneejerk at the video but there is more to the story than what was digitally recorded.

Look at today’s video of Kramer flipping out a comedy club in LA. He should not have thrown out the words that he did, but for all I know before the video camera started rolling some guy in the back of the club was calling him a kyke. http://www.tmz.com/2006/11/20/kramers-racist-tirade-caught-on-tape/
Matthew | November 20th, 2006 at 1:39 pm
Ali, have you ever been to Tehran-gelas? A quarter of the city is Middle Eastern and half of it is Latino. As much as you want this to be about religious/racial/ethnic persecution of a minority maybe you should consider 1)that a middle eastern guy walking around LA is not uncommon, 2)the guy was acting like a nutbag before the camera turned on. If it was a white guy cursing the guards, getting belligerent, etc in LA I think he’d have been dealt with in the same way.
kamangir | November 20th, 2006 at 2:06 pm
Ali,
I have been living in Canada for over a year now and no one has treated me differently because I seem to be Muslim.
kamangir | November 20th, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Matthew,
Yes you are right. Still, the level of brutality present in this video is shocking.
Matthew | November 20th, 2006 at 3:04 pm
I don’t condone brutality…but the lines between brutality, self-defense, and security are all drawn by what was said by the student to the police before the video was taken. What if the guy said, “I’ll go where I damn well please?” That’s offensive but not threatening. If he threatened the police, he knew they would react violently.

What I want to know is who shot the video? Who was walking around with a camera at 11pm at night? Was he a friend of the victim? Just some guy who was out filming (it is Los Angeles after all)? If the victim’s friend filmed the video, is there a possibility that guy who was talking to the cops deliberately tried to stir a reaction? To get knocked down so he could lash out against ‘the system’?
ella | November 22nd, 2006 at 4:14 am
Kamangir

Your question what the police do to insane person is they (probably) put him/her in the safety jacket. I know because one of my friend got ill. There was no police, only burly male nurses, but in hospital they cuffed him to the bed. If the same treatment (and I heard from friends that they were pretty rough) was accorded to that tasered guy everybody would shout “racism”.
kamangir | November 22nd, 2006 at 4:26 pm
Matthew,
Well, I have even heard that this has been an Iranian staged show. Please!
kamangir | November 22nd, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Ella and Matthew,
No offense, but this makes me sick. We forget that a person is humiliated. This is just sad.