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IR: British Soldiers Were 500 meters inside Iran
Kamangir | March 28, 2007 | Category Iran
When Israel and Lebanon got engaged in a full-scale war over the fate of two Israeli soldiers many asked the obvious question that was it worth of it? Now, apparently, the Islamic Republic is willing to destroy half the country for 500 meter of Iran being “invaded”. According to IRNA, the Iranian embassy in London announced that the arrested British soldiers were into Iran by 500 meters. The embassy has emphasized that this is a “technical” problem and has nothing to do with “other issues”. They have also stated that “unjustified daydreaming and excited statements are non-constructive”.
p.s. I just did a simple math. From the 1,648,195 squared kilometers of Iran’s territory, about 13,000 meter squares are mine. That means a pathway of width 50 meters and length 500 meters. Can I ask for my portion of Iran and let the soldiers get back to their ship and not have a hundred Iranians be killed over this?
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Welcome to Kamangir. This is the personal blog of Arash Abadpour (Abad Pour), an Iranian student in Canada (more)
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Link: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breaking-news/world/middle-east/article2399471.ece
how far IR will go to embarrass themselves? since the British Government has released GPS co-ordinates which it says proves that the 15 military personnel captured by Iran last week were in Iraqi waters. I bet you now , Iran will call GPS evidence false.
One can never win with IR! A country that does not care about the well being of their own citizens will not care a bit about British citizens.
Another news:GPS evidence clears British sailors of wrongdoing, Vice-Admiral says (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200703/s1884174.htm )
Not to justify Iran, but you should mention also that there is a neutral zone between every two borders always (called marchland).
Peyman,
Is there? I don’t know that place at all.
Hi Arash,
I am following this breaking news every minute on several British news channels. No this unhuman footage hasn’t been shown on the Farsi speaking channels inside Iran (according to BBC and Sky news)and been showed only on FU**ing Al-Alam (I hate this channel, even more than Aljazirah). Will update you if I hear anything new, by the way Motaki has said that the only service woman will be released soon. Their only fault is that these brave British soldiers just want to secure Iraq something Mullah’s dont wanna see.
Sina,
Thanks. By the way, I did find the video on IRIB. It had Persian subtitles. Keep me posted.
The Islamic Republic is committing national suicide by this kind of behavior. Are they really itching for an all-out war? What the hell are they thinking? Don’t they think this sort of actions have long-term consequences? Iran is being seen a pariah in the eyes of the world. Have you been reading British blogs…even the left in Britain is pissed off. These idiots are bunch of psychologically and politically immature thugs on ego trips..They are digging themselves into a deeper and deeper economic and political hole, while the US and UK can nuke them or carpet bomb them into pieces if they must. How pathetic parading the Royal Navy woman Marine on TV, with a provocative headscarf. What are they going to tell us next? What are we supposes to think that she’s converted to Islam? Is there anyone with a sane mind left in Iran?
Serendip,
You seem to be very angry! you know that “revenge” is an important part of Iranian culture, right?
It was simply a revenge, brit soldiers are mostly in south-east where ArvandRood river is. Iranians couldn’t arrest American soldiers because obviously they are not there. This type of crossing borders happen everyday. It’s nothing new and usually all governments take it easy. Especially in this region that is full of smugglers. I bet IR ordered the Iranian soldiers several days ago to get the first guys who cross the line. Do not forget that IR is not stupid.
About the GPS, it’s not a big deal. If it goes to international courts, GPS data cannot proof anything. You may already know that in many countries digital data (pictures, videos, sounds, raw data) are not accepted as a proof for even small cases such as a robbery. The reason is simple; you can simply “fake” any type of digital data.
Kaman: why do you think that you could get that specific part? there are 69,999,999 other people who might like to own that part as well :D
And sorry that sometimes I go against your comments. You will be justified all the time if only your western readers see your comments and nobody says a word from the other side, I mean the Iranians who live inside Iran. At least I have been living in that society till a few months ago and I know much better than you guys that what a taxi driver thinks in Tehran.
Also I should mention that Iranians always look at britons as people who can’t be trusted and those who were behind all the political problems of Iranian people. I am sure many people in Iran are happy by this action now.
Remember Napeleon Uncle? have you seen it? it’s a must-see movie. 13 or 14 parts and once you see the first part you can’t stop watching others.
http://www.amazon.com/My-Uncle-Napoleon-Iraj-Pizishkzad/dp/0934211485
http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AF%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C_%D8%AC%D8%A7%D9%86_%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%BE%D9%84%D8%A6%D9%88%D9%86
Smilene
It seems that iranians can’t trust britons, can’t trust americans, can’t trust russians, probably can’t trust arabs as well.
I have other question, who can trust iranians?
smileme: Revenge? Well we in the US feel we certainly have absorbed enough attacks from Iran since 79 that we feel fed up to finally mete out some revenge of our own. Plus the way our Leftist party, the Democrats are acting, we are very very angry and their actions are going to exhaust our restraint and patience..
The world will know the US is finally at war when we change the silly label from “War on Terror” to “War on Jihad”
Ella,
Yes, you are very much right!
And I would like to emphasize that what I mentioned here was not my idea, I just wanted to describe for people like you (who don’t know much about inside Iran) that Arash’s ideas are usually far from the reality. Unfortunately, there are many people like Arash among immigrant Iranians. As soon as they go out from the country, they start denying everything about the reality of Iran in their mind.
However, if you ask about my idea, Russians are not trusted by anyone in this world :D and I am sure as far as IR has good relationships with Europeans, no opposition groups could do anything against the regime. European governments always helped the IR regime and betrayed oppositions. They closed their eyes to IR’s humanity crimes, terrorism, and assassinations.
Vince
I guess you mistaken it. As I said, this is how Iranian culture works. You started the history from 79 but I believe you should also go a little back. May be arround 1953 :)
In addition, I think people like you are very dangerous for entire the world. And to be honest it first harms yourself. Because hatred makes more hatred. And this loop goes forever. It can only stop when we start realizing that we are humans.
USA was cheated by Europeans all these years because of your cowboy culture. And let me tell you that there are many similarities between cowboy culture and Iranian culture; dignity, pride, honesty, and defending the right thing for any price. This is why Americans have so many enemies but britons don’t.
I wish you had a chance to travel to Iran once. I promise you that as an American, you wouldn’t be respected more in any other country in this world than Iran. Of course it has only one simple condition. Be friendly with them and they will do anything for you. If you humiliate an Iranian, no matter what they lose, they will revenge in the worst possible way. Unfortunate but reality!
smilene
How do you know that I do not know how people inside Iran think?
If arash write what he writes now, it is not that he is far from reality, it is that he can, perhaps, write more freely than he could before.
I also do not think that arash said that everybody in Iran think what he thinks, he never claimed that, contrary to what you are doing.
And why do you imagine that everybody in Iran think what you think?
Do you think that mullahs from Quom think in the same way students in Tehran think? That villagers think the same way the city dwellers think? That people who live near border of Kurdistan think the same way that people who live near border of Pakistan think?
I think most Iranian love Iran but the image of Iran they love is different.
European governments always helped the IR regime and betrayed oppositions.
Really? Which european governments helped IR regime?
You paint all european governments with the same broad brush, but where is your evidence that Polish government helped IR regime, or Latvia helped IR regime, or Hungary helped IR regime, they belog to EU, don’t they? …………..Or do you mean France helped IR regime?
As for similarities of US and Iranian culture, there are as much similarities as there are differences.
You mention not to humiliate Iranians but humiliation is a very subjective thing, and one may say the same to Iranians coming to Western countries….respect us……………
And please tell me how Europeans cheated US?
As for Russians, I trust Russians to do what is best for their own country, after all many of them are patriots.
smile: I haven’t said one hateful thing about Iranians. The Islamic Gov’t.. yes I have. Your governemnt is evil and destructive. I have every reason to be worried about it.
We’ve been hearing for 10 years now how “very soon” the people are going to rise up. And this expectation has softened our stance toward Iran but its never going to come and we need to stop your govt before it gets nuclear weapons.
Do I hate you or the people in your country? No.. Why would I? But the lesson of letting NAZI Germany get away with murder is that you stop it right away before it gets to the point where millions of people will die.
How do you know that I do not know how people inside Iran think?
Yes, you are right I shouldn’t say that. However, I will give it a try and ask you a simple question about Iranian culture. No need to proof anything for me, just do it for yourself. The question is “what do these words mean in Iranian culture? maraam (مرام), gheirat (غیرت), namoos (ناموس). These are fortunate or unfortunate deep cultural points in Iran that almost govern on everything. Ayatollah Khomeini used these words to make the biggest revolution of the century.
If arash write what he writes now, it is not that he is far from reality, it is that he can, perhaps, write more freely than he could before.
Nobody is perfect. Nothing is absolute. Arash is one of the very good Iranian bloggers and that’s why I am one of his everyday readers. But working with media brings more responsibility. And he, as an Iranian blogger writing about Iran, is indeed responsible to convey ideas of inside Iranians to the foreign readers. But he is not doing it may be because he thinks if he does it, his western readers would not read his posts any more. Therefore, knowlingly or unknowingly he tries to stick to the same media stereotypes.
I saw some posts from Jeannah in the other page ( http://kamangir.net/2007/03/29/basij-execute-britons/#comments ). And nobody gives a comments about those posts. Why? because they are out of stereotypes.
I also do not think that arash said that everybody in Iran think what he thinks, he never claimed that, contrary to what you are doing. And why do you imagine that everybody in Iran think what you think?
Did I? I am so sorry if I said so :)
Do you think that mullahs from Quom think in the same way students in Tehran think? That villagers think the same way the city dwellers think? That people who live near border of Kurdistan think the same way that people who live near border of Pakistan think?
I think most Iranian love Iran but the image of Iran they love is different.
Of course it’s obvious that they don’t think in the same way!
European governments always helped the IR regime and betrayed oppositions.
Really? Which european governments helped IR regime?
You paint all european governments with the same broad brush, but where is your evidence that Polish government helped IR regime, or Latvia helped IR regime, or Hungary helped IR regime, they belog to EU, don’t they? …………..Or do you mean France helped IR regime?
Yes, you are right. My sentence was inaccurate. Now I try to correct it. There are “some” European countries who have the biggest share in Iranian economy in absebse of Americans and those are helping the IR government to control oppositions. And honestly I am surprised that you don’t know anything about it. This doesn’t need my proof, it’s more obvious than 2+2=4!
http://www.countercurrents.org/iran-steinberg080207.htm
I am sure you will like this one: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7374585792978336967&q=history+oil&hl=en
As for similarities of US and Iranian culture, there are as much similarities as there are differences.
You are very much right :) but it doesn’t contradict with what I said. I really find a lot of similarities between cowboy culture and Iranian culture.
And please tell me how Europeans cheated US?
By helping the eneminess between Iran and the US for about 3 decades but having best relations with IR government all these years! getting many long term oil contracts, enjoying a great and monopolized market that is as big as 70 million population! one of the only two or three countries in which people don’t buy anything from McDonald, KFC, Pepsi, Chevy, Boeing, Shell, IBM, Microsoft, Ford, Citi, American Express, and many other American products. By buying very cheap oil during the war (and after the war) and selling useless millitary products to Iran.
You want me to continue? I am sure not :D
As for Russians, I trust Russians to do what is best for their own country, after all many of them are patriots.
Yes, I know that very well because I have many friends (some are very closed friends) from east Europe :)
At the end, sorry for my looooooong reply!
Smileme,
Fine! Now everybody wants that part!:)
You are more than welcome. I enjoy reading your deliberate comments. Keep doing that please.
Vince,
It is a fact that Iran has not been able to create a strong opposition. But there are many international reasons behind the IR regime’s success in holding the power for such a long time. Regime change is not an easy job at all. It needs external support.
As a minimum requirement, the opposition leader needs a special flight to land in Tehran, like the air france one. Does AA or Delta do it for us? :D (just kidding)
Arash jan
your famous comment: Chakerim! :D
Smileme,
I have never called myself a typical Iranian. In fact, you can read in the header of this blog that I describe myself as “An Iranian looking at Iran as a foreigner”. About the part on being an immigrant, I assure you that I had plenty of problems with my ideology teachers back in Iran. Any way, Chakerim. :)
Smileme,
What are those “ideas of Iranians” that I do not convey?
Smileme,
Chakerim more. :D
There are “some†European countries who have the biggest share in Iranian economy in absebse of Americans and those are helping the IR government to control oppositions. And honestly I am surprised that you don’t know anything about it. This doesn’t need my proof, it’s more obvious than 2+2=4!
Smilene
That sentence has quite a different meaning from the one you wrote before.
European governments do have their own economic realities, they need markets and Iran is one of the countries they do business with. It has nothing to do with cheating US, simply their priorities are different. That said the biggest export partners of Iran are not EU countries but Japan, China, South Korea, and Turkey. The Italy is third and Netherland is 6th. As for imports, it is true that Germany is the biggest one but UAE and China are not so far behind, being second and third.
Now, EU countries have quite different modus operandi than US, and they think that negotiation is better than pressure. I might not agree with it, but that is the way France and Germany prefer to work.
I do not view that policy as cheating US, it is different from US but countries of EU are independent countries and their viewpoint is different from the US view.
…………………..
BTW (By buying very cheap oil during the war (and after the war) and selling useless millitary products to Iran.) …that’s just a sound economic policy ;-)
ne of the only two or three countries in which people don’t buy anything from McDonald, KFC, Pepsi, Chevy, Boeing, Shell, IBM, Microsoft, Ford, Citi, American Express, and many other American products.…no, you don’t buy but most of Iranian download pirated programs from the internet.
…………………………………….
Now, your link did not mention that European countries suspended trading with Iranian Sepah bank, and froze its assets, neither did it said anything about freezing assets of 28 military entities and military leaders, neither did it mention that some Swiss banks stopped doing business with Iran altogether. But I understand why not, it is “socialist” site, and “socialist” in reality means “communist”. They had an enemy during the cold war and the enemy did not changed.
As for oil, that would be too much to write about and I do not have time or inclination to give a better source than YouTube or Yahoo, it would be too long read.
You may call european policy as helping IR government to control opposition, but tell me, what do you call opposition to IRI government………..progressive mullahs? students? prominent women? Do they all have the same view of changing the IRI policies? Do they all think about the future in the same way? Do they all want to change the policies and political system of IRI?
If some EU countries help the regime than Iranian opposition does not help themselves either, being diffused and having no exact plans for future.
Now, as for your test of my farsi…….I don’t know farsi but I think many westerners who read this blog do know that language so you again generalize.
The words…….hmm………. maraam is concerned with the whole idea of the islamic jurisprudence, i.e. the legal basis for Iranian Vilayat-e Faqih. Gheirat is pride and/or honour and namoos is chastity alternatively a female members of the family , you probably wanted me to relate it to the war with Iraq…..hmmm once again.
Ups
Sorry Smileme for mistake in your name, wrote it too quickly. Sorry once again.
Ella,
Thank you for your time!
You answered my questions and they were good. However, I noticed one thing in your comments. You keep talking about all these matters in a small period of time, maximum two or three years. I am talking about the first few years after the revolution. In those golden days nobody could even believe that this government would be there for such a long time. I still remember the conversations among family members that everyone used to say the mullahs are going soon.
It is not easy to create a generation of intellectual and brave people who can do a great thing like a regime change. May be it took a century for Iran to have those people. Writers, engineers, reporters, historians, carismatic people and those who dedicate their lives for fighting. They were in fact the owner of this revolution. They didn’t fight to get an Islamic regime like this. They didn’t even want an old mullah like Khomeini gets the power. Only God knows what happened that after so much effort and sacrifice, finally when they could do it, a dirty minded person came and enjoyed the advantage!
Do you think we still have such great people? of course not. But were are they now? any idea? this is the main thing that you always ignore about Iran in your thoughts.
I will tell you now, ayatollah khomeini arrested many people and started executing them thousands by thousands. A few could escape and go to the other countries, mostly to the Europe as political refugees. Of course europeans gave them a place to stay that was much better than standing in front of wall with closed eyes and waiting to hear the rifles shooting into your chest. But this is the moment that the europeans betrayed us. IR started finding these people and assassinate them one by one. From the biggest faces to the very normal ones. And the euoropean governments simply closed their eyes to all these things.
IR guys were opening accounts in swiss banks and traveling to europe everyday. Rafsanjani was always most welcome to europe. This is the tragedy part of our history. I was about to tell you in my previous post that when I say european countries, I don’t mean today’s EU members. Your country was really more of a Soviet terretory those times than an independent country (you are Polish right?). But this is not something that can be explained in a page or two. There are many families who don’t know even where their children are. Those children were the only people who could do something.
First you let the regime kill all the important faces of their oppositions in front of your eyes and then you ask, why don’t you have oppositions? we want to help you!
BTW, most of those young people who actually made the revolution, those highly educated and motivated people who did it in a well managed way (not the people who came to the streets), they came from western universities with very high educations. Shah sent tens of thousands of talented students to those universities by the government money. After the revolution, not only IR regime didn’t let anyone go there but it got help from those countries to track students and shut them down both in inside and outside the country.
You can again say, yes europeans did it for their own interests, this is natural! I agree with you. But this was too greedy, too dirty and too crimeful and it will definitely have consequences. As a coup in 1953 had such a big consequence in 1979.
About the words, sorry but you are far from the real meanings :D but good try though ;)
Ella, lets end this conversation here. I cannot write such big lectures again! I am sure you can’t do it either :D
As a brief, I think for Iranians its the best to have a democratic government (even if not a perfect one) and make the US + Israel as the country’s best friends. If europeans have good products and services, let them compete with Americans rather than using mullahs to monopolize everything for their own good. Then we can have a logical, respectful, and careful relation with the rest of the world. If this happens, I am sure it will be a win-win case for everyone.
At the end, governments are to make a better life for people. Work, earn, spend, drink, dance, have fun and have freedom. That’s all our people need.
Smileme
I cannot write such big lectures again! I am sure you can’t do it either
I can ;-)
You accuse me of not knowing Iranian history, I think I know it a little so what you wrote is nothing new for me.
You are saying you don’t have “great people” like at the time of Iranian revolution, in my book that it not true. As for intellectuals and other people who can do regime change, it is not the intellectuals and writers who make the revolution, it is usually the “normal” people who had enough. Intellectuals, writers, reporters, historians could do nothing without others. You say that iranians did not wanted that kind of revolution, did not fight for IRI, but in all revolutions the result is usually different from the one imagined by the people fighting the revolution and the movement who wins is the movement who is best organized, not the one who has the best ideals. As for charismatic people, don’t you think that you had enough of them? Khomeini was charismatic, very much so, but it seems that you long yet for another charismatic person.
You are taking of european betrayals, that is also not true. At the time of revolution you had two major movements, one was lead by mullahs the other one was Tudeh, there were others but apart from these two they all were uncoordinated and often fought with each other. Most of Iranians followed Khomeini, or read Khomeini or listened to cassettes with his speeches.
You are talking about betrayals, but that was charismatic Khomeini who betrayed people, who changed what he said when he got the power. And if you think europeans would have supported Tudeh, a communist party you do not know what was the meaning of ” cold war” for europe and europeans.
You are taking about IR assassination squads in Europe, yes, they did killed intellectuals and persons who took stand against IRI, but what do you wanted europeans to do, apart from trying to prevent it on european soil? You wanted them then to start a war with IRI, when they had nuclear bombs and russian army stationed in East Germany? True, they may have protested too weakly, but they had their own concerns and Iran, forgive me for saying that, was far away, on the other hand Russian treat was immediate.
You are saying that europeans were too greedy and too dirty, but look at your own history, not the recent one, but the history of your empires………..not much of a difference.
As for european crimes, (probably you mean 1953 coup), yes, there was a removal of Mossadeq who lost the support of Tudeh and islamists. But from what you write you wanted Europeans to make the same mistake (or crime) once again, once again remove legal government of Iran, the government of Khomeini.
About the words, sorry but you are far from the real meanings
Fine, then what are the real meanings?
If europeans have good products and services, let them compete with Americans rather than using mullahs to monopolize everything for their own good.
They don’t, you mix europeans with chinese.
As a brief, I think for Iranians its the best to have a democratic government. governments are to make a better life for people. Work, earn, spend, drink, dance, have fun and have freedom. That’s all our people need.
That’s what every people in every nation need.
Ella,
Okay I give up ;)
I am learning too. Of course this doesn’t mean that I agree with everything that you said.
The words cannot be simply translated. You have to live, not one year or two but many and many years to understand what they mean. Especially the first word “maraam” that is usually used in the middle level to poor societies. It is a set of unwritten rules that one needs to follow in order to be a nice person.
Example: your colleague asks you to join him/her for lunch. Then a very important manager comes and asks you to join him for lunch. Which one will you go with? and what will you say to him? remember, you didn’t confirm with your friend yet that you would go with him or not.
Here the rule of “maraam” says, you have to go with your friend. Worse than that is, you have to tell to your manager very loudly that you would like to go with your friend for lunch so that your friend hears it and when the manager goes out being pissed off by you, your friend comes and says “damet garm” (literally translation: your breath be warm) that means s/he really appreciates your friendship :D
Got it now? ;)
It is usually a decision between a powerful or important person and an unimportant and humble person. Standing up against the powerful person for your friendship with the humble guy.
Don’t you find similarities between this and our foreign policy? we always take care of people from Uganda, Ethiopia, and most importantly Palestinians but we don’t care about big big superpower countries :D
Got it now?
uhuh, more or less.
But cheering up for underdog is not necessarily an exclusive to Iran. I mean, look at americans helping and spending millions of dollars for sick children in Africa, heplping unimportant people during the drought or trying to get some poor countries to be more democratic. That’s because they think american democracy is the best system there is so they want everybody to get it, particularly the poor people. I am not saying that democracy, american style, is necessarily the best system for everybody, but that this is what americans believe and so they act accordingly.
As for similarities between this and Iranian foreign policy………yes, the majority of Iranians probably believe that such is your policy, but in reality IRI have this kind of policy because the poor countries also do not like superpowers, so they are the “natural” allies of IRI government. Look at your policies in South America, do you really think that your policies help people of Cuba? Poor people who are forgotten by nearly all countries, including Venezuela. People who really would not like to stay under Castro government. But IRI is helping Castro government, it is one of your allies, as is China, as is Syria.
Just happened across this website, and the opinion of Craig Murray former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan…
Course he may have an axe to grind in saying the that the MOD produced maps are fake… he was booted out of his job for protesting too loudly about the Uzbek government “alledgedly” boiling its opponents to detah.
http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2007/03/fake_maritime_b.html
I feel he writes well and has a good personal handle on how some ot the US Governments less than freedom and democracy loving bed-fellows are acting.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_murray
I still feel the the IR should release the sailors, but the issue may not be as black and white / clear cut as most media outlets would suggest.