Kamangir (Archer)

Reader's Comments

1. Al-Kindi | September 23rd, 2007 at 4:13 pm

   اسرائیل یا عزرائیل (ءیعنی مالک الموت(

   Translation: Israel or Ezrel is the angel of death.

2. Chris | September 23rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm

   It’s funny how in English it only says down with America and Israel but the Arabic/Persian version says death to America and Israel.

   Kamangir: I’m wondering how this mistranslation has begun.

3. Al-Kindi | September 23rd, 2007 at 4:36 pm

   I’m wondering why those signs are in Arabic. I guess they were out of “Marg bar..” signs and had to call Hizbullah for some!

4. serendip | September 23rd, 2007 at 5:54 pm

   what was Ezra-eel? wasn’t that the death angel??

5. Matthew | September 23rd, 2007 at 6:57 pm

   Al-Kindi,

   I hate to break it to you but nowhere in the Qur’an is Israel mentioned as the Angel of Death. Malik al-maut is generally believed to be (but is never specifically named as),
   عزرائیل
   whose name literally translates to, “Assistant of God.”

   However, even a first grade student of Arabic could tell you that that is a completely different spelling with a completely different meaning than
   اسرائیل
   which, if you know your Arabic (and I hope that you do), likely refers to the Jews’ time as slaves in Egypt–”The bound/shackled Family.”

   Qur’an 69:17 refers to the eight angels that support the throne of God but I think you’ll find that neither of your two angels is named among them or among the 19 angels overseeing Hell in Qur’an, 74:30. Harout and Marout are named as demons of Babylon, but Israel is left out.

   Qur’an 44:30-3 will tell you that Bani Israel is “chosen by God,” ikhtarnāhum, “above all beings.” This statement is coupled with the story of Israel’s deliverance from Pharoah, including the signs, including the signs (āyāt) given to Israel. The signs are mentioned in additional passages presenting the Children of Israel as chosen by God, for example in Qur’an 45:16-7, in which God gives them the Torah, Judgement, and Prophethood provides them with good things and “prefers them,” (wa-faḍḍalnāhum) “above all beings.” Then the clear signs (bayyināt) that were given to them are mentioned. According to other passages (Qur’an 5:32 for example), the signs were brought to them by their prophets.

   Kamangir: It is great to have someone with your knowledge here, Matthew. Thanks.

6. Esra'a | September 23rd, 2007 at 7:30 pm

   Guys, I feel at big risk. That almost sounds like my name :(

   Kamangir: It definitely does. :)

7. serendip | September 23rd, 2007 at 9:34 pm

   Al kinidi: Obviously, you don’t know persian. In persian there is Ezra-eel which is often invoked when people are sick or they want to scare people and it has nothing to do with Israel or Koran.

8. Al-Kindi | September 23rd, 2007 at 9:34 pm

   Matthew,

   Thank you kindly for the lesson in religion. The “Israel-’Azrael” joke is kind of an old joke that doesn’t transfer well from a Delhi Cafe to an Internet Blog… but it is just a joke. Israeli Army murders people every day which is why we make this “joke”, although hardly anyone is laughing.

9. Frieda | September 23rd, 2007 at 10:00 pm

   LOLO… don’t they have anyone that read and writes proper English over there?

10. Roman Kalik | September 23rd, 2007 at 11:11 pm

    Heh, I guess that means we’re safe and sound now, eh? :-D

    Al-Kindi, and yet with all the evil murderous plans of Israel, the Palestinian death toll here has four figures. So does the Israeli one. A great deal more Palestinians died in Jordan’s Black September, when Arafat’s revolt failed. In fact, more Iraqis kill other Iraqis in a year than the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict’s death count. Same with the late *city* of Hama in Syria, which Hafez Assad destroyed utterly. Or Iraq’s Kurds under Saddam. Or the Yemenites Egypt gassed when it got involved in Yemen over forty years ago.

    In fact, Israeli-caused death pales in comparison to all the other death in the Middle-East. Maybe it’s because Israelis try to avoid it? And get focused on because we’re “different”, not “Arab” or “Muslim”, and are a great distraction for those who focus on such differences?

    And Azrael (literally Helper of God in Hebrew) is mostly of interest to Christians.

    Kamangir: Are you not going to confess that you all this “Ahmadinejad hates Israel” thing was a hoax you guys had made up? :D

11. Roman Kalik | September 24th, 2007 at 12:07 am

    ‘course not, Kaman. It was merely… a mistranslation. :-P

12. Al-Kindi | September 24th, 2007 at 12:31 am

    Intifada toll 2000-2005
    The four years of the Palestinian intifada have cost more than 4,000 lives. B’tselem, an Israeli human rights group, has been tracking casualty figures on both sides.

    Most of the statistics cover the period from 29 September 2000 to 15 January 2005.

    PALESTINIANS KILLED BY ISRAELIS*

    3,135 killed by security forces in the West Bank and Gaza including 627 aged under 18, 181 killed in extrajudicial executions and 288 (including at least 29 aged under 18) killed in the course of these assassinations.

    54 killed by security forces in Israel
    including one aged under 18

    34 killed by Israeli citizens in the West Bank and Gaza
    including three aged under 18

    *There are no figures to show the proportion of Palestinians who were combatants and those who were civilians.

    ISRAELIS KILLED BY PALESTINIANS

    431 civilians killed in Israel
    including 78 aged under 18

    218 civilians killed in the West Bank and Gaza Strip
    including 34 aged under 18

    218 Israeli security forces killed in West Bank and Gaza

    83 Israeli security forces killed in Israel

    PALESTINIANS KILLED BY PALESTINIANS

    # 101 killed by Palestinian civilians on suspicion of collaborating
    # 29 killed by members of the Palestinian security forces (for September 2000 to Septemebr 2004)
    # 3 Palestinians killed by gunfire from Palestinians shooting at Israeli civilians (for September 2000 to Septemebr 2004)
    # 2 Palestinian security forces killed by Palestinians attacking Israeli soldiers (for September 2000 to Septemebr 2004)

    FOREIGN CITIZENS

    Foreign citizens killed
    # 33 foreign citizens (including two aged under 18) were killed by Palestinians in Israel
    # 10 foreign citizens were killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza
    # 9 foreign citizens were killed by Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza

    Killings by foreign citizens
    # 3 Israeli civilians were killed by foreign citizens (for September 2000 to Septemebr 2004)

    PALESTINIAN CITIZENS OF ISRAEL
    (for September 2000 to Septemebr 2004)

    Palestinian citizens of Israel killed:
    # 13 Palestinian citizens of Israel were killed in Israel by the Israeli police and border police.
    # 4 Palestinian citizens of Israel were killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip

    Killings by Palestinian citizens of Israel
    (for September 2000 to Septemebr 2004)
    # 3 Israeli citizens were killed in Israel by Palestinian citizens of Israel
    # 1 member of the Israeli security forces was killed in Israel by a Palestinian citizen of Israel

    (The above figures do not include Palestinians who died because medical treatment was delayed due to Israeli restrictions on their movement, nor does it include those killed by explosive devices which were on their person.)

    ECONOMIC COSTS

    The World Bank reported in 2004 that after almost four years of conflict and Israeli restrictions on movement that disrupt business activity, average Palestinian incomes had dropped by more than one third, and a quarter of the workforce was unemployed.

    Nearly one-half of all Palestinians live below the poverty line. More than 600,000 people (16% of the population) cannot afford even the basic necessities for subsistence.

13. Roman Kalik | September 24th, 2007 at 1:16 am

    How I love B’tzelem. The Palestinian death-toll they have is based squarely on Palestinian reports, thus the main reason for no proportion of civilian/combutant deaths, and I suspect the numbers were artificially inflated. They also make themselves judge and jury by calling military operations executions.

    The Israeli death-toll they have is quite amusing, though, as it’s halfed. Oh, and several hundred Palestinians were killed by Palestinians, which isn’t even mentioned in B’tzelem’s report but was in Palestinian lists.

    Now read the following: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33562

    In fact, read whatever you can of the so-called “Jenin Massacre”. After that one, most Israelis don’t take Palestinian reports at face value.

    Now read about Hama: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_Massacre

14. ella | September 24th, 2007 at 2:25 am

    Al Kindi

    During five years of intefada Israel killed 5,000 palestinians, some people even say it is a genocide

    ***************

    - on February 2, 1982 Syrian army killed between 10,000 to 25,000 muslims

    - during Anfal campaign Saddam killed between 50,000 to 100,000 kurds, who incidentaly were also muslims

    - during Black September in Jordan around 5,000 palestinians have been killed by Jordanian army.

    Now, who is doing genocide if during one month a muslim country killed more palestinians that Israelis killed during the five years of intefada.

15. Matthew | September 24th, 2007 at 3:46 am

    al-Kindi,

    You weren’t making a joke, you were using an ancient religious reference to defame a modern nation. Not appropriate, not funny.

    The Islamic Republic murders…ahem, “legally executes a-moral people” everyday–Muslim, Jew and Baha’i (and even turns a blind eye to the desecration of graves of dead Jews and dead Baha’is). Your co-religionists are slaughtering each other en masse in Darfur and Iraq.

    Your ‘joke’ shows that you take issue not with murder, or the murder of Muslims, but with Jewish sovreignity in Israel.

16. Chaya | September 25th, 2007 at 6:17 am

    The pals put in their death figures the deaths of armed combatants. I was hoping to find a site which tells the truth about Iran and - again - I find myself with people who don’t know a thing about Esrael, excuse me, Israel, and continue to defame us! You are ‘buying’ the propaganda of the Muslim world and its Leftist fellow travelers! There is so much killing all over the world against ethnic minorities that what is happening in Israel pales in comparison! And we’re not doing any killing for ‘the fun of it!!!’ Why do you think we build that awful wall?? Because suicide bombers were coming into our cities and blowing themselves up!!! I, personally, was against the wall - as was most of the Right - but it has kept these crazies out for the most part. I could go on but I’m going to stop for now. But I am really interested in seeing what else this site has.

17. leo | September 25th, 2007 at 10:34 am

    “Esrail” - is not spelling mistake.

    “Israel” does not exist. Nobody dares to spell its name correctly.

    I am wondering.
    In his yesterday CU interview how did Ahmadinejad pronounce Israel’s name in Farsi?
    Was it done correctly or with the twist?
    Or may be incorrect version is right one because correct one never existed?

18. Roman Kalik | September 25th, 2007 at 10:44 am

    Leo, the correct name in Hebrew is Yisra’el.

19. Al-Kindi | September 25th, 2007 at 11:04 am

    “Your ‘joke’ shows that you take issue not with murder, or the murder of Muslims, but with Jewish sovreignity in Israel.”

    And??? Israelis OBVIOUSLY take issue with Muslim sovereignty in Palestine, so why shouldn’t I take issue with Jewish sovereignty??

20. leo | September 25th, 2007 at 11:33 am

    Roman Kalik,

    I am curious to know whether correct name for Yisra’el exists in Farsi or not.

    Ex: Russian for Moscow is Moskva and both are correct.

    Thank you for the info, though.

21. Roman Kalik | September 25th, 2007 at 11:58 am

    It was an English sign though, Leo, so the English version should have been used.

    And no, Al-Kindi, Palestinians (who aren’t merely Muslim) could have had a state here over 60 years ago, as well as on several occasions during the last two decades.

    60 years ago, the so-called Arab Liberation Army, along with the Nazi-helper il-Husayni, took that choice away with their war.

    Now, it’s about time the Palestinians (with their myriad of armed groups merrily attacking civilians in shopping malls, calling that Resistance), got the very concept of two separate states. And that their endless war and servitude to pan-Arabs only caused them harm.

22. Matthew | September 25th, 2007 at 12:44 pm

    Al-Kindi,

    Why shouldn’t Israel take issue with Muslim sovreignity in Palestine? Many Palestinians (and Muslims) want to first, kill and second, subjugate the Jewish people, why shouldn’t they reject this? When you visit Beirut or Damascus, it’s easier to find a copy of Mein Kampf in Arabic than it is to find a copy of the Bible in Arabic.

23. Roman Kalik | September 25th, 2007 at 1:22 pm

    To add to what Mattew said, you won’t find Jews in Syria, or Egypt, or Iraq, or Jordan. That’s because they were all expelled, and stripped of their property.

24. Matthew | September 25th, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    And to add to that, the Jews in Arab lands were expelled and stripped of their property AFTER 1300+ years of official, second-class citizenship as dhimmis.

25. Tom | September 25th, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    Guys, stop making sense. Seriously, this isn’t about sense, it’s about pure unbridled emotional discharge.

26. serendip | September 25th, 2007 at 7:33 pm

    Middle Eastern’s forgotten Jewish refugees:

    http://www.jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/

27. Matthew | September 26th, 2007 at 8:27 am

    I wonder when the Arabs will pay reparations for the Jewish land and property that was seized in the first half of the twentieth century, and when Turkey will return Eastern Greece to Greece.

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