Kamangir (Archer)
An Iranian looking at Iran as a foreigner…
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Thank You Columbia University
Kamangir | September 24, 2007 | Category Iran, Islamic Republic
I thank Columbia University President for making Ahmadinejad hear what we have been so long thinking about.
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Salam (Hi) - سلام
Welcome to Kamangir. This is the personal blog of Arash Abadpour (Abad Pour), an Iranian student in Canada (more)
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Haha, very well put my friend!
That was awesome, but I’m sure Ahmadinejad was prepared for it. Looking forward to hearing his speech. Do post it here. Thanks
Well said, Kamangir!!! Thanks for posting the youtube.
Yes, it seems Ahmadinejad was prepared for it. I have not watched the whole speech. However I think the “greatest” moment of his speech was when he said that in Iran there are no homosexuals, like in America. He did not know who told audience that lie, but there are no homosexuals in Iran.
WOW.
Your blog is one of the few I actually bother to read. Keep up the good work!
Ella, sadly that was his one major mistake, the only other (and smaller) one being that Nile to the Ephrates conspiracy theory.
Overall, AJ managed to wrangle out of answering anything at all, and instead used the Q&A for revolutionesque propaganda.
I think once again, as always seems to happen when Iranian officials speak too many Americans are focusing on trivial aspects of his speech, and not focusing on his words and intentions.
I think once again, as always seems to happen when Iranian officials speak too many Americans are focusing on trivial aspects of his speech, and not focusing on his words and intentions.
Even though I am not american, I can answer you, on behalf of many americans and others you think are americans.
Yes we do focus on his words and intentions, we certainly do.
Prove your words. What message did you take out of his speech, if any?
c/p’d:
He said: “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country. We don’t have that in our country. In Iran, we do not have this phenomenon. I do not know who has told you that we have it.”
His claim does not imply that there are absolutely no homosexuals in Iran, but rather that the phenomenon of widespread homosexuality is not ‘like in your country’. Iran does not have the large growth rate of homosexuals that the USA has, and that is what he is trying to say. The way in which the quote is given in the post removes the context. Also, keep in mind that this man’s first language is not English.
Perhaps people should learn to read things for themselves before making judgments.
It was a propaganda loss for President Ahmadinejad. And correct, his homosexuality comment drew a response and I posted on it today, using a political art.
I hope I did the link correctly.
Opps, I did not do it corrctly. http://independencelost.blogspot.com/2007/09/iranian-president-ahmadinejads.html
Al-Kindi - (1) He was not speaking in English, so it matters not what his first language is. Perhaps there was a poor translation, but there are enough Farsi speakers around to figure that out and so far none has surfaced to tell us that that was a poor translation. (2) The “context” was that Ahmedinejad was answering a question about why his government executes people for the crime of being gay. His answer was laughed at because, not only did he avoid addressing the question of why his regime executes people for being gay (of which there is ample proof), but he also then went to the extent of saying that Iran does not have the phenomenon of homosexuality like America. It is an utterly ridiculous statement - and if you believe it, go to this link and watch this report from Canada’s CBC on homosexuality in Iran:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=27198_Video-_Out_in_Iran&only
Finally, whether or not Iran has as many homosexuals as the U.S. has or if they are a growing community or not, the issue is how the Iranian goverment treats the homosexuals they have! In the U.S. there are many people who do not like homosexuality, or who even think it is a sin. But the law of the land not only does NOT execute people for being gay, it protects them against harm by prosecuting those few who do physically them merely because of their gayness.
Al-Kindi — do you defend the Islamic Republic’s laws against gayness?
Debbie K
I appreciate the comments of Columbia president.
Al-Kindi, you’re being an apologist now. Iran has very strict policies regarding the few people who are *found* to be gay, most of which end up in forced brainwashing, forced sex-change operations, or death.
You can’t be gay in Iran, Al-Kindi. That’s exactly what AJ meant. Iran doesn’t have gays like the US does because Iran fights its gay population head-on, while the US doesn’t do that. Gays in Iran hide, or stop being gay. Or being alive.
http://direland.typepad.com/direland/2005/09/theyll_kill_me_.html
Gays die in Iran, Al-Kindi, for being gay. Those are the facts in the field.
His claim does not imply that there are absolutely no homosexuals in Iran, but rather that the phenomenon of widespread homosexuality is not ‘like in your country’. Iran does not have the large growth rate of homosexuals that the USA has, and that is what he is trying to say.
homosexuality is not a “phenomenon”. it is NOT a learned behaviour, if it was how would you explain the rampant homosexuality that exists in saudi arabia? after all it is a muslim country which follows a sharia law which forbids homosexuality through its teachings? it also exists in iran, but the difference is that it is hidden underground there because of the persecution that follows it. here in the US homosexuals do not have to hide if they choses to.
Also, keep in mind that this man’s first language is not English.
he gave his speach in farsi. and he had a translator.
Perhaps people should learn to read things for themselves before making judgments.
indeed.
And yet none of the criticism is mentioned in the Islamic Republic write-up…
http://www2.irna.ir/en/news/view/line-24/0709252616013529.htm
How strange! How the media of peace loving and enlightened country like the Islamic Republic miss the pointed criticism, boos and hisses, and laughter at Ahmadinejad’s absurd speech that were reported in the US media? Why would people across the US think that this speech was all a stunt to use Ahmadinejad’s speech to portray his ideas as warmly received in the US? Why all the shouts of propaganda?
Jack:
What is being “gay”? Is it simply defined as a man who engages in sexual intercourse with another man? Or does it also include talking, dressing, and acting in a certain way?
There are gay men in conservative Muslim countries such as Saudi Arabia, yes. This should not shock you, after all there are a few (~24 million) people in the Saudi peninsula. I think when Ahmadinejad says “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country” what he means is that Iranian people do not go about making their sexual preferences obvious to others, as many (but not all) American/Western gays may (albeit stereotypically) do. I am a straight male, I have a wife with whom I very much enjoy having sex with. When I am at the mosque, do I go about and tell people this? Or make my sexual preferences obvious? No. The Muslim religion and Iranian culture especially place emphasis on mutual respect and formality. If I was a gay Muslim, I would not go about making my sexual preferences known. Similarly, if I was an Iranian (living in Iran), I would not go about hitting on men and such.
The Middle East, Iran, Saudi… these are not the places to be gay. These are respected holy places where people have acted a certain way and will continue to act certain way. If you want to be gay, have fun in New York, just don’t try any of that shit in Iran. That is the message I get from Ahmadinejad.
Al-Kindi,
Ahmadinejad had his chance to speak and what he said is that there are no homosexuals in Iran. He dodged questions about the holocaust and wiping Israel off the map. He demured on the nuclear program and spouted platitudes worthy of Hallmark.
Thankfully, you are here to tell us what Ahmadinejad really said. When I read the transcript, I couldn’t tell what the hell he said, if anything. We Americans would remain in the dark and cofused if you, and men like you, weren’t out in the blogosphere actively spinning what Ahmadinejad spewed out.
… You just went and ignored all evidence to the contrary, Al-Kindi, didn’t you. Did you bother reading any of the links here? Gays don’t act as gays openly in Iran, Al-Kindi, they’re damn well hunted for their double life, by informants and by cops on Internet chatrooms.
Al-Kindi… Is the entire Middle-East holy? And does “holy” mean torturing people, destroying their future, even execution? I object to Gay Pride parades and festivals in Jerusalem, but I would never support your twisted meaning of holiness, and what you believe is required to safeguard that holiness. These police hunts, torture, executions, they are a far greater desecration than someone who “dresses gay” will ever be. This is because the life of a human being is more important, something that you seem to have failed to learn.
Joseph Goebbels said “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.” … well his Big Lie Theory is funny as it is …
but in Ahmadinejad’s case … good grief! the lie way way too big!
;)
“Who told you this lie, there are no homosexuals in Iran.” - the exact words of Ahmadinejad.
You, al-kindi, are appologist and a hypocrite.
Being a gay is defined as a man who engages in sexual intercourse with another man, no way around it. It is against sharia, it is against Islamic religion and neither Saudi Arabia nor any other muslim country acknowledge the fact that there are homosexuals in their countries. If they did, they would have to get this people from the basements and shopping malls into the full glare of the sun. So they and you prefer to deny it and to sweep it under the carpet.
You and others like you are hypocrites. Shame on you.!!!
The Middle East………..It is a place where people have acted a certain way and they will continue to act a certain way.
That is true, people started to act in a certain way in 7 century AD and they still act the way people acted in the 7 century AD in the midst of 21 century. And that is a serious problem for the rest of us.
But do not include in your desciption majority of Iranians, many of them act and think in a ways suitable for 21` century. They are Iranians, after all.
Selma,
A quote as appropriate as it is true.
There were a few echoes of Churchill’s disgust with Oxford University’s debating union’s resolution on Hitler in today’s New York Post. http://www.nypost.com/seven/09252007/postopinion/opedcolumnists/squalid_mistake.htm?page=0
What is being “gay� Is it simply defined as a man who engages in sexual intercourse with another man? Or does it also include talking, dressing, and acting in a certain way?
being gay (which includes women as well by the way) is having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex. it has nothing to do how a person dresses or talks.
I think when Ahmadinejad says “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country†what he means is that Iranian people do not go about making their sexual preferences obvious to others, as many (but not all) American/Western gays may (albeit stereotypically) do.
of course. if homosexuals in iran made their preference obvious they would be executed. there is no need to express your sexual preference in iran because it is assumed that everyone is straight.
I am a straight male, I have a wife with whom I very much enjoy having sex with. When I am at the mosque, do I go about and tell people this? Or make my sexual preferences obvious?
its funny but you just went about and told everyone here about your sexual preference.
If I was a gay Muslim, I would not go about making my sexual preferences known. Similarly, if I was an Iranian (living in Iran), I would not go about hitting on men and such.
again, this is not something that is allowed in iran. the punishment for that is death. i would not blame you.
The Middle East, Iran, Saudi… these are not the places to be gay.
well. you seem to have gotten something right after all.
The point I was trying to make was that sexual preferences are not something that should be discussed or advertised openly, anywhere.
why not? and why does that bother you so much?
Al-Kindi,
“If you want to be gay, have fun in New York, just don’t try any of that shit in Iran. That is the message I get from Ahmadinejad.”
You may find it hard to believe but everybody else understands in it exactly the same way.
Jack: It doesn’t bother me personally. Huh? I don’t give a shit. I’m a 21 year old Ph.D candidate - I know how to live life. But these days morality has no spokesman.
Leo, great answer.
Jack: It doesn’t bother me personally. Huh? I don’t give a shit. I’m a 21 year old Ph.D candidate - I know how to live
good for you. now it would be nice if you let everyone else live as well, as they choose.
Al-Kindi,
The way in which the quote is given in the post removes the context.
No. Your quote removes the context. The fact is that Ahmadinejad was replying to a question. The question asked related to Iran’s treatment of homosexuals. Not to whether or not there are homosexuals in Iran, but specifically to that country’s barbaric treatment of them. The response, as has been quoted here exhaustively, was essentially that there aren’t any homosexuals in Iran, that “we don’t have this phenomenon”. This is a barefaced lie, since Ahmadinejad’s own regime executes homosexuals simply for being homosexual.
I think if the United Nations will move to Teheran the stuff will be more boring.Please,don’t fight guys,hard times are coming.
Al-Kinid:
Being gay is not a sexual preference. The gay people have no choice in the matter. It is determined by ther pre-natal hormones that organizes the brain of the fetus. (developmental biology 101)
Please use your research ability as a PhD candidate and do some research into biology and genetics. I can’t believe they allow people into a doctrol programm with your kind of ignorance. You would’ve never been allowed into any graduate program if I had interviewed you…What a travesty…
History of gays in Islamic culture:
http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2005/December/Homosexuality/index.html
Inside Iran’s gay community:
http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2007/03/030407_1.html
Iran’s queer organization:
http://www.irqo.net/
Interview with an IRanian transgender:
http://www.cyrusnews.com/news/en/?mi=5&ni=562
Iranian human rights activist Banafsheh Zand-Bonazzi joined Glenn Beck today to talk about all of those homosexuals that don’t exist in Ahmadinejad’s Iran:
http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/09/banafsheh-zand-bonazzi-talks-about.html#comments
Since 1979, over 4,000 gays and lesbians have been executed in Iran. They are, however, given a “Choice of Deathstyles.â€
http://pajamasmedia.com/2006/11/to_be_gay_under_the_mullahs.php#comments
Information and links about the Middle East’s forgotten Jewish refugees:
Check out the sidebar:
http://www.jewishrefugees.blogspot.com/
Serendip,
Thanks so much for the link!
The point I was trying to make was that sexual preferences are not something that should be discussed or advertised openly, anywhere.
You mean that we shouldn’t criticize when you slaughter the innocent. Fuck off.
I don’t support the execution of homosexuals in Iran. If it was “legal”, however, that is pretty much an endorsement for homosexuality…in Iran… and last time I checked pigs cannot fly
Yes, every time you allow innocent people to live, that’s an enforcement. Can’t allow that. Once again, fuck off.
There used to be a slogan on the left, “no platform for fascists.” It should have been applied to dinner-jacket, and it applies to you.
Go away.
Sorry, “endorsement” damn spell-checker picked the wrong word.
You don’t fool me Kindi. You are the one endorsing oppression. If this were my blog, you’d be deleted every time you posted. I can’t tell you to fuck off in strong enough language.
You are very kind!
No, Al-Kindi, allowing something is not the same as endorsing it. Allowing something simply means not violently objecting to it. It means beating up gays for being gays is illegal. It means executing gays for being gays is illegal. It means that someone who is gay is treated as a human being, that’s what it means. No privilages, no special treatment, just… being allowed to live.
You, Al-Kindi, are a joke.
And your perception of state and law, is dangerous. Just because someone is not killed (or jailed, for that matter) if they do something, it does not mean that their behavior is encouraged by the current regime. It means that it is none of its business.
The words of Ahmedijan on this matter was, indeed, the words of a dictator. I think he managed pretty well over all, but this little remark pretty much blew it.
I think Al-Kindi is gay.
Unfortunately, Al-Kindi’s mindset represents a large majority of uneducated Middle Eastern muslims…and this guy lives in the West and is PhD candidate. Can you imagine what would an illiterate ME’s mindset might be??? Folks, this is what we are up against. A world stuck in the middle ages.
Al-Kindi wants those who don’t like oppression to shut up about gays, but he wants the religious oppressors who foment hatred and violence toward gays to be allowed to talk, and incite hated and violence and even to create state oppression.
Only those with pity or humanity are to shut up.
He’s a monster.
Serendip, he knows exactly what he’s doing. He’d not ignorant, he’s just a fascist who hopes that we’re ignorant enough to take his poison without thinking.
“.. He’s not ignorant …” Please excuse my typos.
Al-Kindi is representative of both the educated and non-educated. He represents the khomeinist islamofascist, the misogynistic (repressed homosexual) pseudo-religious zealot that condemns free societies from the safety of free civilization. He embodies the contemptible hypocrite-one whose intolerance of others lurks behind the facade of his “morality.” If people like him where not so dangerous, we could laugh their ridiculous thoughts and banality off any stage. They are not to be reasoned with or engaged in dialogue. They must be dealt with in harsher ways.
Bravo Faramarz. That is a true charcterization of Al-Kinid and his type. The core essence of their belief is revulsion of others who don’t think like them, consumed with hatred for others unlike themselves. Extermination of those who don’t accept their views are their only solution to continue and survive as a cult.
I think you all need something better to focus on. Kaman, can you post something new already? :P
Kamangir: Sure, in a few hours I will.
Notice that he didn’t deny that he only wants those who support the right to shut up, not those who kill and foment hatred.
Instead he posts a [...] smiley
a [...] smiley.
You make me puke, you [...].
>> You, Al-Kindi, are a joke.
>> And your perception of state and law, is dangerous.
>> Just because someone is not killed (or jailed, for that matter) if they do something,
>> it does not mean that their behavior is encouraged by the current regime.
Be careful. I never said not killing them was an endorsement, I specifically and clearly said “I don’t support the execution of homosexuals in Iran.” Declaring that homosexuality is legal in Shari’a law is to say that Allah has prescribed it for humans.
By the way, I don’t agree with any of you people saying homosexuals should be tolerated, however I don’t see you as any less humans because of your views.
> Notice that he didn’t deny that he only wants those who support the right to shut up, not those who kill and foment hatred.
> Instead he posts a fucking smiley
> a fucking smiley.
> You make me puke, you fucking fascist.
Buddy you need to get laid.
“Notice that he didn’t deny that he only wants those who support rights to shut up, not those who kill and foment hatred.”
not “..who support the right..”
Fascists make me too angry to type clearly. He lives in a free country, you say? That [...]!
Buddy you need to get laid.
Disgusting. You won’t oppose to see hatred and death for people’s sexuality, but you make jokes about it. Evil fucking monster! Disgusting. Go live in Iran and leave the civilize people alone.
And I hope you’re the first against the wall when the next Iranian revolution comes.
I’m Indian, and those Persian guys already came and invaded India a while back. Let Iran burn I say!
By the way, I don’t agree with any of you people saying homosexuals should be tolerated, however I don’t see you as any less humans because of your views.
Which includes not protecting them from slaughter. You said we shouldn’t even talk about them being killed.
You’re fooling no one but yourself.
And of course they should be tolerated, they’re not hurting anyone, but you are. Your lot promotes hatred and violence toward innocent people, such as gays. It you who shouldn’t be tolerated.
Not tolerance for intolerance!
Even without the typo, that slogan needs to be made clearer:
“No tolerance for the intolerant!”
Slogans! You guys are just like Ahmadinejad now. :)
اسرائیل نابود شد، آمریکا شکست خورد
اØمدی نژاد غرور Ùˆ عظمت ملت ایران را زنده کرد Ùˆ به زورگویی Ú¯Ùت بمیر!ØŒ اØساس شور Ùˆ شع٠کردم وقتی دکتر اینقدر با صلابت سخن میگÙت: بدون ترس Ùˆ واهمه Ùˆ با قلدری! (یادم هست ملانصرالدین جایی به من Ú¯Ùت با قلدرها قلدرمابانه سخن بگو تا جرات نکنند ØرÙÛŒ ناØÙ‚ بزنند)
Translation: Israel was destroyed and the US was defeated. Ahmadinejad resurrected Iranian nation’s pride and glory…I was very delighted….
Al-Kindi, then perhaps Shari’a should leave the punishment up to the Almighty? Let it say that homosexuality is wrong, but why should people suffer physical punishment over it? It is their personal sin, so let them suffer for it after Judgement, should the Almighty deem it thus. Or better yet, make Shari’a a personal matter for each Muslim, rather than state law. When the Divine rules the State, it doesn’t make the State more Divine. It simply corrupts the Divine.
Ù…Øمد مهدی is a douche.
For people who pretend to be righteously angry with Ahmadinejad’s (or anyone’s) intolerance and bitter rhetoric, you lot are sure a bunch of hypocrites. You should be ashamed of yourselves… once things are typed they can’t be undone.