Sir, I am not a Pig
Posted by KamangirFeb 1
The disgraceful action of an Iranian student in Canada caused a lot of very passionate discussions in the Persian blogosphere. Reportedly, the 25-year-old Ph.D. student of Memorial University, Newfoundland, has pleaded guilty for charges of sexually assaulting a lady in an elevator. On his defense he argued, “You can’t expect all males to control themselves when the breasts are out”. He also claimed to have been abused during his three-week preliminary confinement.
What is striking in this event is the attribution of this unacceptable offense to the country of birth of the offender. I do confirm it, and I am aware that many Iranian males will not like my assertion, but the average Iranian male suffers from a lot of tension in his sexual life. Nevertheless, I see no point for a media source to use the term “Iranian” on the first sentence in their report of the event. Less acceptable is the notion of “Iranian Pig” being used by a fellow blogger.
I have been living in Canada for over two years now, and, to my great pleasure, this is a country of respect and dignity. You have no right to call me a pig (the title of the post has changed since, but the “pig” is still there in the url and also in Google Cache).
The number of Iranian students abroad is growing exponentially and I think we can expect some other bad news in future. However, to be fair, the majority of Iranian students here have a big problem dealing with the opposite sex. This problem exists. Iranian boys have not learned how to treat women specially those who have studied all of their life just to escape the country. We have to deal with the issue and it will not be solved by calling others racist. One more thing is that calling others ‘pig’ is not really that offensive in Canadian culture than it is in Iranian culture. Calling others donkey or monkey is also quite offensive in Iranian culture. you can hear this sentence from a lot of Canadian girls: “guys are pigs”. By thus they refer to high sexual desire of guys mostly.
If he calls this sexually desperate engineering geek an “Iranian pig”, he should call that poor Canadian lady a Canadian Bitch.
Kamangir: I don’t agree with you.
I made no secret about changing the title, if you scroll down the comments on the site you can see where I explained why. If you misread the title to imply that all Iranians are pigs than to you, Kamangir, and you specifically I apologize. I didn’t say that you are a pig – I said that specific Iranian student was a pig, hence the title change.
But if you have time, I’d like for you to look through the comments on my site. Half the people there are defending him – a sex offender. There’s even one guy telling a woman to ‘shut up’ and another person agreeing with the ‘pig’ that it was the victim’s fault. What word would you use if you had to generalize and describe that trash?
Kamangir: Dear Robert, I guess I overreacted when I saw the terms “Iranian”, “Muslim”, and “Pig” together. This boy is seriously ill. Not just in his sexual life, but also in his pathetic justification of “cover yourself up or I will lose my control!” There is no need to apology. I apologize from you, on behalf of anyone who goes out there calling a sexually-harassed girl names. Although not a happy moment, I am glad I got to know you. Take care.
Arash
I disagree with you.
I have read Robert post (after he changed his title) and I agree with his post. A pig is a pig whatever nation he comes from. This guy is from Iran so he is Iranian pig, if he was a Pole one could call him a Polish pig, if he was from KSA he would be a Saudi pig and so on. I would be very angry at this guy and I would not be overjoyed (to put it mildly) by such description but nevertheless I would agree with that label.
btw the explanation that guy gave for his attack is ridiculous!
amir
It seems instead of blaming a male sexual deprivation and his lack of control you want to put blame on a woman who was attacked? Because that’s what your post means.
Kamangir: I guess Robert crossed the line in his original post and I overreacted. At the end of the day, the Iranian guy is a sick offender and the assaulted girl has just been on the wrong time in the wrong place.
Arash nobody called you a “pig”, this guy has been called “pig”. You are not the same guy, are you? ;-).
I have noticed that you and other Iranians are often very touchy if foreigners say something bad about your country or about Iranians. You take it all very personally. I know that it is sometimes difficult not to get right into the fighting mood, and believe me I have often the same problem when it comes to Poles and Poland but you need to think a little. I think that you also need to take into consideration cultural differences, even I need to do that, and I come from a very similar culture.
Kamangir: Good you know how my Iranian brain works. And yet, I am accused of serving the “Zionists” and acting against Iran. It is funny, isn’t it?
Archer
If I offended you I do appologise.
As for you serving the “Zionists” and acting against Iran – in every nation there are idiots, Iranians are not exception to this rule.
Kamangir: No! Not at all. It is amazing to see people accusing the poor girl of having been “too welcoming”. I am thinking about writing this up for somewhere.
ps.
The idiots in the post above are, of course, the people who accuse you of serving “zionists” and acting against Iran.
I think you are correct. In discourse, and especially in the case of reporting a criminal offence, there is no need to refer to the person’s ethnic, racial or nationality, (especially in the title) as it gives the assumption that their background had something to do with their offence.
City Boy:
That someone commits a crime is in itself news. Who that person is is an integral part of the story. If the criminal is a non-citizen, then that is relevant. To then deliberately omit the nation of origin of the criminal seems pandering to me. Every detail, is in fact, part of the story. Given my understanding of the manner in which sexual assault is frequently handled in many middle eastern jurisdictions, this does seem especially relevant.
Mr. Azarsina made a statement to the effect that he cannot be expected to control himself. There appears to be a link between this statement and certain cultural norms in some countries that the woman MUST cover herself, lest she entice a man into doing something he might not otherwise do (commit a sexual assault).
That it becomes news does not imply that all members of a particular national origin are similarly incapable of controlling their own behaviour. Delicate sensibilities, however, do not dictate that this news must therefore be buried.
If a Canadian commits a crime in another country, I have absolutely no problem with them being described in the media as a Canadian citizen. The citizens of that country have every reason to want to know that the person is both a non-national, and wherefrom that person hails. I have no fear that it reflects directly upon me, as I was not the person who committed the crime.
آنگاه که بانویی از تبار جوانمردان بیاموزد به مردان درس و رسم مردانگی را!
http://www.aavang.ir/weblog/2008/02/posts_335.html#more
Kamangir: I never mentioned his name. Neither did I post his picture.
Ella, imagine if I was offended everytime someone said America is evil, it sucks, the people are morons, etc etc. :-)
Life is too short for silly anger. It’s better to focus it on jerks like Farhood!
Have a great weekend everyone!
I`m agree with the first comment from Ali.So,can the IR make an warning flew chart for sexual behaviour abroad?
Depending how revealing this girl looked, I am not sure who I would blame. In a situation where some meat was put in front of a cat and the cat ate it. Would I blame the cat or the person who put the meat in front of the cat? Getting into a lift when you’re revealing your sexy boobs with a guy on his own? Couldn’t imagine I would risk that if I were a girl – think about it before you judge the situation.
Kamangir: Well, I’m not a cat for sure.
Hamid, I don’t care if a girl dances naked in front of you. It’s not an invitation to touch her unless she specifically gives you permission. You are expected to exercise self control at all times. If you are incapable of that, you are nothing more than an animal and you should be locked up for the safety of others.
Whenever you travel to another country, you’re an ambassador.
I agree that there are times when middle-easterners aren’t given a fair deal, but I don’t think that this story makes a very good flagship for that concept.
Hamid,
A woman wearing revealing clothes (in this case, having a cleavage) is by no means an invitation to have sex, or to even touch the woman in question. Men are not cats (animals that operate on impulse and instinct) and women are not meat (inanimate object that feeds base desires).
Both you and the Australian Mufti Hilaly need to get this simple set of facts into your heads. Women are not things, and men are not animals, m’kay? Instead of trying to excuse such actions (and basically repeating the old pervert adage “The bitch deserved it, she was asking for it.”) *you* sit down and think for a change. If you think that an “uncovered” woman is an invitation to rape, then I’d go and register in your country’s sex offender database if I were you. It’ll just save time, trust me.
And I say all of the above with the certainty of a religious man who not only obeys a strict dress code (and would prefer if there were a great deal less billboards and commercials using sex appeal for advertising, for one), but who also bothered to listen and read when being taught about personal responsibility and what being a moral human being means.
Sarah & Kalik,
You were just as guilty as that guy for having attacked me the way you did. You obviously know very little about how certain humans behave when put in certain situations.
Do not try to teach me self control as I was not talking about myself – I have too much self-control in all aspects of life for me. I was merely stating a fact that women should practise some common sense in certain instances where they may encourage certain individuals to become dangers towards them. As adualts and civilised people we all know what is right or wrong but if we want to play it safe we must use some common sense not to endanger ourselves, for instance I would not wear an expensive suit and walk on the streets of Harlem if I wanted to stay safe while I would get through the area. In a nutshell “apply common sense and there will be no regrets”.
PS- Please avoid giving me another lecture as my job is lecturing and there’s nothing you could say that I have not heard before – just remember we do not live in an ideal world.
PSS- Do not insult animals by comparing them with humans – some humans I have come across in my life who are not worthy of being called animals!
Kamangir: Trying to keep safe is important. Nevertheless, the fact that you are living your normal life and are not practicing a tight security does not give others the right to attack you. Using your analogy, if you wear expensive suits and walk in a bad neighborhood and get rubbed, it doesn’t make the case for the bad guy any easies.
The problem with your suggestion is that you are generously letting our, men’s, temptations control their, women’s, clothing. The problem is that this approach is hugely to our benefit. I refer you to the head of Police’s recent announcement of “boots being provocative and therefore banned”. Where is the line? How are you going to control us from not pushing women back to homes?
Common sense? Where the heck is the common sense in being afraid of entering an elevator with someone? Or should women assume that all men are dangerous nutters who would exploit what they see as a weak woman whenever they get the chance, and see a little cleavage as a “she asked for it” statement?
You’re comparing a small, poor, and gang-laden neighborhood (Harlem) with the entirety of the male population. Congratulations – you’ve proven to me yet again that being an academic (which I assume you to be) doesn’t actually translate to intelligence.
Hamid
Common sense? What the hell do you mean common sense? Even if a girl would wear a bikini in an elevator normal man is expected to behave like a man and not like a monkey.
The girl in question wore a clevage and you assume that she was “encouraging” certain individuals? What are these encuraged individuals – animals?
I really do not care if you are a lecturer, your views are medieval or, shall we say, fundamentalistic. Your being lecturer has nothing to do with your behaviour, only with your knowledge in (probably) technical subject(s).
If Hamid thinks a woman is a piece of meat, don’t get mad at him. He doesn’t know any better. Women are just too simple and need male guidance. Only Mohammed knows when a woman is being “appropriate”. *rolling eyes* :-p
However, Hamid, don’t expect many people to help you out when you get beaten by an angry Western-minded woman unhappy that you couldn’t keep your grubby little hands to yourself.
Well, I think it was very kind of me offering some of my time to warn you that “enticing the deprived can be dangerous at times” and one must always be vigilant towards potential hazards if one can help it – you obviously failed to get my point which was meant to be more towards a general situation – it goes without saying that no reasonable individual would condon what that guy did to this girl – my point is “being extra careful” in certain situations are far better than being care-free and ending up worse off in life – you learn this by maturity and I don’t expect you juniors to, yet, understand this – lol
Tom, who is Mohammed btw? Never met the guy in my life :-)
Hamid
I would like to direct your attention to the fact that sometimes “deprived man” in “certain situations” can get a very nasty surprise.
Canada is a western country and unpleasant surprises for unwary, “encouraged” ME men are various and many. Some are worse than poor dears can imagine.
Therefore if I would be the one of these “deprived” men I would be very careful of my behaviour – even if these men are able to think only like minors.
Can I be a cat? It sounds more lively than being a slice of female steak. Plus they make these so anatomical differences can be ignored for Hamid’s cave man analogies.
Hamid, again, “being extra careful” does not and should not translate into women having to hide from and fear every single male around. We’re not talking about walking around naked at night in some dark alley here, we’re talking about an elevator in the middle of the day.
By your logic, women should indeed go to the extremes that Kaman brought up. Where does it end, when women are forced to walk around in black tents, and with a male relative supervising their every action? Is that your definition of a “careful” and “sensible” woman? An open-air, daily prison routine?
And your analogy (the exact same one that Hilaly used) was an incredibly horrible one. I’m amazed that you can’t realize that. Hilaly’s solution to certain Lebanese men in Australia gang-raping Western women was to say that if they wore their burqas and stayed at home – they wouldn’t have been raped. Instead of focusing on how wrong rape is, how bad the men were, what people like them will receive as punishment in the afterlife, how good and proper men should act… Instead Hilaly went for lecturing to the victims. Good for him, eh?
Guess what, Hamid? You, with the exact same “meat” analogy, are doing the same. For you, the behavior of the man is a given, so you have nothing to teach the man. No, you focus on lecturing to the victim on how she should “dress sensibly”, how an inch of skin is enough to drive half of humanity wild and unable to control themselves, and how she should really keep herself with a bodyguard at all times… Don’t expect people to find that amusing.
Come on folks, you’re crucifying me for trying to save women from potential predators! Would it not really have been a lot easier for this girl to have covered herself with a Chador (a veil) when she saw a “suspect guy” inside the lift? – she could have then taken the veil off once this man was out of the lift – I am sure if she she’d done this none of this stuff would have happened and everyone would have been a lot happier afterwards.
Moreover, things could have even turned a lot nastier if let’s say the woman was carrying a “pound of meat” with her and the guy had brought his “Persian cat” with him – however, we ought to be thankful of the fact that this was not the case on this occasion.
Kamangir: I am really shocked that you are so passionately insisting on your point of view. It is true that you can carry a big shotgun in order to not be rubbed, but it is not your fault if you do not and then get rubbed. Are you not confusing the issue of “protection” with that of “responsibility”?
Of course if girls all carry pepper sprays and get trained for using them when there is need there would be less instances of rape and sexual assault, but this does not make those who do not prepare for facing the “walking sex machines” responsible for what may be done to them.
Archer
I found that pepper spray is “restricted weapon” in Canada, however dog/bear spray (different name, same result) is legal. Bear spray is supposedly really good for “deprived men” ;-)
Kamangir: Really? :))
Here’s hoping this HTML works.
Shorter Hamid and Cat Meat Sheikh, his holiness Bilal Skaf
Inspiration by ICanHasCheezBurger?
Actually, it was Hilaly. Oh well, I’ll have to settle for a link:
http://deadbeatwriter.livejournal.com/105589.html
Kamangir: It was hilarious! I took the liberty of posting one of your pictures in my Persian blog, accompanied by a short review of what we are talking about in here.
http://persian.kamangir.net/?p=1669
Lesly, those are great! :-D
Hamid, and if she just wore the Chador all the time, and stayed at home when possible, and walked around with a male chaperone, she would have been perfectly safe from “pushing a poor man over the edge” at all times, eh? Only… the real issue here is a young idiot who thought that a woman with a cleavage was a thing, something he could grasp and take, because (or so he claimed) that was what he knew from back home. Because back home, he’d get a slap on the wrist for something like this, and the policemen would be sure to tell the crying victim how she should have dressed, just like you are doing now.
Where’s the line, Hamid? There is none. There is only the belief that a victim can be to blame for being seen as a thing – a tasty morsel for the taking. A chador wouldn’t have saved this student from a real street predator – the kind of person who looks for the meek and insecure women, not the ones with the big breasts. So what then? A chaperone, and stay at home otherwise?
Or maybe we should focus on the actual cause (men who see women as things) rather than the symptoms? Or are all men like that, Hamid? Should a woman walk around all day in fear, lest she “tempt” some man? Should billboards advertise that the only good woman is the one who wears her chador? Should policewomen go around and beat modesty into those who have yet to realize this? And should this be what a young man learns as he grows up – that society views women who don’t wear the chador as things? And if you can beat them up, then why can’t you *take* one for a while? She’s only an immodest woman, after all, a slut whose sole aim is to tempt men at Satan’s behest – a *thing*, not a *real* woman – real women wear the chador. Or have a chaperone. Or stay at home.
And that’s the path that we go down when we start blaming the victim, Hamid. When we start blaming the victim, we turn her into the criminal – and the actual criminal gets a slap on the wrist. And I don’t find the fact that you don’t realize whose responsibility rape and sexual harassment is as laughable – I think it’s frightning. You either don’t realize who is at fault in such cases, or honestly see the vast majority of men as uncontrollable beasts.
And I’m no animal, buddy. Neither are 99% of other members of the male sex that I know, thankfully. Maybe the males *you* know should have some basic morality beaten into them?
Folks, I must admit it’s been a nice “giggle” talking to you all – you can’t imagine since I’ve come back to Iran “how much” I miss winding up you westerners :-)
Lesly, great link btw, laughing all the way through it – but let’s admit, you’d do anything to go out with a guy like me including wearning a Chador :-)
Why aren’t I surprised you not only dwell in the last milennia, but you also think you’re a fine catch?
Yeah. Blaming rapes on what women choose to wear gets me so hot. Mmm… yell at my mini-skirt, baby. Yessss!
Sorry for coming to the discussion late. However, I’ve read the posts and comments both here and at Dime a Dozen’s place. So I thought I would throw my pixels into the mix., even though I am neither a Canadian nor Iranian.
As an initial matter, I don’t think Dime’s headline implied that all Iranians are pigs, but only the person who committed the sexual assault, who was an Iranian is a pig. However, I can see how some might misinterpret the headline, so Dime did right by changing it and Archer by coming forward with his frank and honest opinion. All I see so far is a misunderstanding that was easily, and judging by the exchange between Dime and Archer, amicably resolved. The more troubling aspects, at least to me, is the belief of some who posted comments both here and at Dime’s place that somehow a woman is responsible for being assaulted if she is not “properly†dressed.
Paint me a libertarian, but I believe that a person should be free to do as they please within broad boundaries…I think that is the basic point Locke was making in the 17th century and is the fundamental principle of today’s liberal democracies. So I find the comment by Hamid that a woman would be better off wearing a veil in the presence of a “suspect guy†more than a little disturbing.
Leaving aside the issue of how one can tell who a “suspect guy†is, the more important issue is personal freedoms. The answer for preventing harm caused by a man (or a woman for that matter) who cannot control his actions is to prevent him from roaming the streets. The answer certainly is not to require the woman to give up her freedoms in order to accommodate the criminal or mentally ill.
As for walking in Harlem in an expensive suit, well that is a nasty stereotype, no? At any rate, I have done that and have not been assaulted, robbed, or obviously murdered.
Bottom line, what a woman wears, if she chooses to wear anything at all, is not an invitation to be sexually assaulted. If you can’t control your actions then stay at home, or seek counseling. That Hamid is maturity.
Yes, Hamid, the ladies must really like you. Oh, by the way… is trolling web discussions a respectable action for a teacher in Iran, or is it only seen as such if those trolled are from the immoral West?
Mike,
I enjoyed reading your post – well written. I absolutely adore English language – my desire is to learn every word in Oxford Dictionary – do you know how I can achieve that?
Lesly & Kalik,
Read post 30 again please.
PS- A bit of confession here from me; I am actually an “atheist” – do you really think there are any atheists who believe in women should be covering themselves in chadors?!! The truth is the less women wear the better I like them myself :-) :-)
Hamid
Hamid
I appreciate your comment on my writing. Unfortunately, you are asking the wrong person how to learn the text of the Oxford dictionary – I have a mild case of dyslexia and doubt that I could read the whole thing without help.
Mike
hamid
i think, it is better for u to go back home as u will be more appriciated there.
All iranian men in iran think exactly like u. and as an iranian girl i am so sorry for all iranian weman who live in iran.
Mariyeh
London